65a 3.4 litre jaguar

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Hello Brian, I don't want to step on anyones toes, I am not a '1-75 series' regular wheels expert, they are on this forum, but I am not one of them, however, I can relate to fakes and forgeries from the models that I have had experience of and if I can help sway any decissions through this then that's fine.

The other two models in your picture are typical examples of baseplates not secured with really wide spun-down rivets and it would not take a lot of effort to remove one or both of those baseplates, (the Jaguar in particular looks a prime candidate for this), so while there is no question about the authenticity of the 'Ferret' and 'D-type Jaguar' the 3.4 Jaguar will remain suspicous, simply because of the rivets, until we can have enough examples of the same model to confirm it as a hand finished model done at the factory, and that's going to be a long shot.

As for other models with 'chisel-rivets' I don't know of any myself, only what is being posted here on the forum and without any factory evidence to substantiate their existance, (another shot in the dark), it will be hard to confirm where they have come from. I would love to see paperwork from past Lesney workers relating to such models or factory photographs with these models in view, but at the moment, none is forthcoming.

GHOSTHUNTER.

[SMS88]

..........................
The other two models in your picture are typical examples of baseplates not secured with really wide spun-down rivets and it would not take a lot of effort to remove one or both of those baseplates, (the Jaguar in particular looks a prime candidate for this), so while there is no question about the authenticity of the 'Ferret' and 'D-type Jaguar' the 3.4 Jaguar will remain suspicous, simply because of the rivets, until we can have enough examples of the same model to confirm it as a hand finished model done at the factory, and that's going to be a long shot.
.....................

GHOSTHUNTER.

Most members of this forum own at least 1 probably more than one 65a Jag however I bet none of them own any 65a with such small diameter rivits or such long stemmed rivits - unspun rivits on 1-75 series are vhtf and finding 2 on the same toy is an even longer shot. Easy to see this Jag is genuine if we hold one our own against our computer screens and compare rivits to baseplates,particularly at the rear where the gap between a spun rivit and the rear step is much less compared to the unspun

[mike]

Edit postDelete postReport this postReply with quoteRe: chisel cut' rivets
by mike » 23 Nov 2013, 17:58

[nickjones]

In the "chisel cut rivets" thread there is a picture of Hugh's (Idris) Iso Grifo with chiseled rivets, it is obviously genuine and possibly unique as the baseplate is not only in unplated bare mazac but it is also an unrecorded casting that is different to the standard baseplate, Vectis have also sold many unique colour and casting variations with chiseled rivets.

[motorman]

Can we not consider that these might be genuine??

I mean if some one was to try to take a properly spun rivet and then tried somehow to make it look like a chiselled rivet i think it would be pretty obvious as a faked attempt. These on the otherhand do not look as though they have been spun which surely must give them some credibility???

[brian]

In the "chisel cut rivets" thread there is a picture of Hugh's (Idris) Iso Grifo with chiseled rivets, it is obviously genuine and possibly unique as the baseplate is not only in unplated bare mazac but it is also an unrecorded casting that is different to the standard baseplate, Vectis have also sold many unique colour and casting variations with chiseled rivets.

hi nick
i sent same pictures of the 65a to vectis that i posted on here.they said the colour was more interesting (looked a bit more lighter usual metallic paint).i've taken some more pictures out side to send them.the person who rung me said the rivets doesn't make much difference to the value of the car.im going to Alsbury toy fair today ,and taking the vehicles with me to try and compare with ones there.

[mrmoko]

In the "chisel cut rivets" thread there is a picture of Hugh's (Idris) Iso Grifo with chiseled rivets, it is obviously genuine and possibly unique as the baseplate is not only in unplated bare mazac but it is also an unrecorded casting that is different to the standard baseplate, Vectis have also sold many unique colour and casting variations with chiseled rivets.

hi nick
i sent same pictures of the 65a to vectis that i posted on here.they said the colour was more interesting (looked a bit more lighter usual metallic paint).i've taken some more pictures out side to send them.the person who rung me said the rivets doesn't make much difference to the value of the car.im going to Alsbury toy fair today ,and taking the vehicles with me to try and compare with ones there.

And this is where the problem is . The person who rung you is a reseller and not a collector. I really cant believe someone would say that about the rivets. If a car is a different colour than the norm ,the first thing a collector will do is flip it over and look at the rivets . If the rivets are dodgy or suspect ,you lose 95% of the value of the model in collectors eyes.. Vectis have sold many a dodgy/questionable item . We had a guy on here with a bronze Mercedes 220 .He said prepro because Vectis said prepro. The rivets were the worst rivets i had ever seen . If i remember correctly not many of us at all were impressed by it . He paid a fortune for it as well.

In saying that, pre production models is a very dangerous area .Then there are the lunch box specials. Its endless. Know one really has proof of what actually came out of Lesney. Every so often another prepro comes to light right here on this forum. Just ask Jason . There is a lot of combined knowledge on here and we are not driven by profit but by passion. I personally would look no further than right here on this forum for any help. gaz

[Idris]

In my opinion, at the moment, I think that the balance of probabilities is that these are genuine.
The one real problem I can see in all this is that we are looking at a 41a, a 61a and a 65a. Now I can understand the 61a and 65a ending up together with factory chisel-cur rivets, because they were released only a few months apart. The 41a is very much the odd one out. How, and why, did these three models end up together?
As regards Vectis, their comments regarding the rivets are simply not credible and show a lack of understanding of the collecting scene.

[brian]

i have been to the toy fair and had two different opinions.there was no 65a to compare to so that didn't help either.i will wait until nick or someone on here who other forum members recommend to past judgement on it fake or not.

[SMS88]

i have been to the toy fair and had two different opinions.there was no 65a to compare to so that didn't help either.i will wait until nick or someone on here who other forum members recommend to past judgement on it fake or not.

Its very very difficult to fake unpsun rivits because its clearly the correct metal yet there are no suitable donor toys to source one for transplant which is why I am 99% confident its genuine......paint damge around rear rivit caused by chisel however body still very nice so whatever held it when chiselled protected the paint well