Shades in RW Picture Boxes

[Matchboxpat]

I've decided to proceed with the addition of a few RW E boxes that I think are worth being in the variation list.

I think it would be consistent with the fact that I already include a few variations that are based on shades and may be hard to identify if not side by side. I am thinking of 31C (green vs turquoise) and 46C (blue vs green).

Christian already identified a few in his work and when I look at the Nigel Cooper "Matchbox Picture Boxes" Catalogue (issue 2005), it becomes more and more obvious for the following boxes :

- 30C : Dark green (E2) Light Green (E3, E4)
- 32B : Lighter Red with grey tires (E3) Darker Red with black tires (E4)
- 33B : Dark blue (E3) Blue-Green (E4)
- 51C : Dark green (early box) Light green later
- 53C : Dark blue (E4) Lighter Blue (E4R)
- 66C : Different label color and grey shade

So those will be added in my next update.

I am less convinced that those should be considered as variations, so I won't add them, unless I can see clear example of differences :
- 7C (Orange or Red Cab)
- 12C in blue (darker or lighter)
- 20C Yellow vs orange/yellow with different wheels
- 25C Aral
- 32C BP
- 36C Lighter or darker gold
- 41C
- 47C Lighter or darker turquoise
- 52B Lighter or darker
- 56B Lighter or darker
- 64B Lighter or darker
- 69B (Red model)
- 74B Lighter or darker
- 75B Green model Lighter or darker

If anyone can provide pictures that clearly help see the difference, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks !

[kerbside]

Hello Matchbox Pat, here are the 7c (E Boxes) showing the Red cab and the Orange cab models also the ends of the boxes.

As you can see the one showing the Red Cab has New Model printed on it.





George T.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

For those not familiar with these boxes, the Red cab box is pre-1968 and the Orange cab box is post-1968 production as it has the 'R' (Registration), at the foot of the 'X' in "MATCHBOX".

Ghosthunter.

[Matchboxpat]

Hello Matchbox Pat, here are the 7c (E Boxes) showing the Red cab and the Orange cab models also the ends of the boxes.

As you can see the one showing the Red Cab has New Model printed on it.





George T.

Thanks George for these clear pictures. I am in the process of going though all the pictures I have gathered over the years and indeed, the "New Model" box is clearly red compared to the orange one. The photo you just provided shows the two variations next to each other and it is obvious this way. I only have the "E4R" variation in my collection...

It's also interesting to note that the "New Model" box of the 7C is the only variation that does not mention "FORD" on the end flaps...

[ChFalkensteiner]

It is very difficult to decide where to draw the line with those shades.

In the pictures of the 7c boxes shown above, the colour difference is not only visible in the model pictures, but also in the "MATCHBOX" lettering and in the small print which is much darker red on the older than on the newer box.

This indicates to me that it is not a case of an intended colour difference regarding the model pictures, but just a printing ink variation that happened by accident.

If I happen to have two boxes which differ just by this colour shade aspect and are otherwise identical, I usually keep them in the collection as different but tend not to catalogue them. There are just too many such cases, particularly in the Superfast era.

[Matchboxpat]

It is very difficult to decide where to draw the line with those shades.

In the pictures of the 7c boxes shown above, the colour difference is not only visible in the model pictures, but also in the "MATCHBOX" lettering and in the small print which is much darker red on the older than on the newer box.

This indicates to me that it is not a case of an intended colour difference regarding the model pictures, but just a printing ink variation that happened by accident.

If I happen to have two boxes which differ just by this colour shade aspect and are otherwise identical, I usually keep them in the collection as different but tend not to catalogue them. There are just too many such cases, particularly in the Superfast era.

Thanks Christian for your input ! I Also noticed that different shade of red in the Matchbox lettering. Dark red vs lighter red for the box without the "New Model". Still, the cab on the "New Model" seems "more red" than the other one. I cam across a few other pictures that shows the same red cab, although it was not possible to have a side-by-side comparison.

You are right, it is quite difficult to draw the line. Obvious intended color differences like 24C or 42B are easy to call, but even the 46C blue or green is far from obvious. This question has been in my mind since I started the web site but frankly, if we consider 46C blue and green and 31C green and turquoise as different variations, there are variations as obvious as those, like 30C, 7C, 53C, 33B and 66C.

I am only missing the 31C Turquoise and 46C Blue in my whole E box collection and it 46C is mainly because it's hard to spot a clear difference, and it is a "known and documented" variation.

[kerbside]

I do not class these as just shades on these two boxes, when 7c was first issued it was listed as Red and so the box with New Model on
shows the Red model.

Then all the other issues were listed as Orange and the boxes showed the Orange model and they did not have the word New issue on them but had the word Ford added to the ends so they are two different boxes any way.

George T.

[Matchboxpat]

I have updated the welcome page of the box web site to explain the addition of 5 new E Box variations that are more, to my opinion based on observations and documented information, than just shades.

As 46C and 31C have both variations that are a little more than just shades, 5 other models can also be considered as such. Supported by the listing in both John Hanchet & Nigel Cooper "The Matchbox Picture Boxes" as well as Christian Falkensteiner, I pushed the research a little further and realized that indeed, some variations have been overlooked on this web site. By comparing several pictures, I came to the conclusion that 5 models can already have a new variation. Those model are:

- 7C : Red cab (for the "New Model" E4 box) + Orange Cab (No New model, E4 and E4R)
- 30C : Dark green (for the "New Model" E2 box) + Light Green (for other types w/o "New Model")
- 33B : Blue or Green (both for E3 and E4 boxes)
- 53C : Green or Blue (both for E4 and E4R boxes)
- 66C : Silver-gray body with light blue labels (E4 "New Model" box) + Grey body and bright blue label (E4 and E4R w/o "New Model")

7C E4New Redjpg.jpg (23.57 KiB) Viewed 2628 times

7C E4New Orange.jpg (25.68 KiB) Viewed 2628 times

30C E2New Dark.jpg (24.88 KiB) Viewed 2628 times

30C E3 Light.jpg (26.15 KiB) Viewed 2628 times

33B E4 Blue.jpg (24.86 KiB) Viewed 2628 times

33B E4 Green.jpg (24.76 KiB) Viewed 2628 times

53C E4R Blue.jpg (25.07 KiB) Viewed 2628 times

53C E4R Green.jpg (24.76 KiB) Viewed 2628 times

66C E4New Silver Light Blue Labels.jpg (24.14 KiB) Viewed 2628 times

66C E4R Grey Bright Blue Labels.jpg (23.23 KiB) Viewed 2628 times

These models will be added in the variation pages this week.

Meanwhile, the following boxes will need more research, as I am not able to clearly state that there is more than just appearance of a difference in shades :

- 1E : The models appears to be darker in a few cases, but it is almost impossible to tell if not side by side
- 2D : The models appears to be darker for the "New Model" box, but it is almost impossible to tell if not side by side
- 51B : The "New Model" box has a darker green than others. But I would need side by side comparison.


As for the following models, I just could not find any evidence of a color difference, although some may argue that there is a slight difference. For now, I consider them only as shades only due to difference in ink used rather tham a real color difference.

- 12C : The blue model box may be a bit darker in some cases
- 20C : Just can't tell any difference by looking at several boxes of different sub types !
- 25C : The ARAL variation may have lighter or darker blue model, but I still need to see side by side to convince me !
- 29C : Should be found in different red... But I could find anything to prove that
- 32B : one variation seems to have grey tires while the other has dark tires
- 32C : Light or dark green cab ? Never saw a clear evidence
- 36C : The gold variation could be lighter or darker... But I could find anything to prove that
- 41C : Never saw a variation different from another...
- 42C (both red and blue variations) : Never saw a variation different from another...
- 47B : Different shades of white ??
- 50B : Lighter or darker green, still to be proven
- 52B : Lighter or darker blue, still to be proven
- 56B : Very hard to tell... A bit darker on some boxes, but no easy call
- 63B : The variation w/o target may have lighter or darker red, still to be proven
- 64B : Lighter or darker green, still to be proven
- 74B : The green version maybe lighter or darker... still to be proven!
- 75C : The green version maybe lighter or darker... still to be proven!

[kerbside]

Hello Matchbox Pat, here are the two different colour 51b boxes, as you can see they are quite different not just shades.





As you can see some one put the letter A in biro on the box end.

George T.

[kerbside]

Hi here are two photos of the 50b "E" boxes, showing two different Greens, not quite as noticeable as the 51b Greens.





George T.