40a Bedford 7 Ton Tipper

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kwakers
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Re: 40a Bedford 7 Ton Tipper

Post by kwakers »

GHOSTHUNTER wrote:Welcome back to the forum Dick. Please don't make the break so long next time, it gets worrying for a lot of us here, thinking you may have dropped Matchbox and moved onto collecting Star Wars... :D

Ghosty.
Hello Ghosty! There is always room for more TOYS......I Must admit my most expensive find at our local Toy Show last Saturday Ghosty was a non-mint 1964 B Model Mack Hess Toy Tanker Tractor Trailer. I have looked for a reasonable example of the very first Hess Toy for many years now, and I finally found this one after I had bought 4 needed Regular wheel models from the same Dealer/ Friend of mine who was seconds away from hiding that Tanker away at the end of our Show. It was just meant to be for both of us I guess! Another youngster did show me a couple of his Star Wars figures after that Show that would go well with my 3 Son's Star Wars attic stash from about 10 years ago that I still enjoy saving that are stored VERY near our Lesney displays......But, Lesney RW will always be closest to my heart lads......
Another admission to you especially Ghosty is that along with one Son's Corvette and another's Dodge Stealth, I may have a slightly rough RR of my own in a very short while parked back in our carriage house with the 60s VWs and the OLD Cars. (As if our family doesn't have enough distractions already to keep me away from our Forum!) Life is way too short to own boring cars I guess....Smart Phones? I may never learn to use my old Dumb one.......An electronically challenged
Kwakers from his cave in upstate N.Y.
Bernie
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Re: 40a Bedford 7 Ton Tipper

Post by Bernie »

Idris wrote:We actually went down precisely this path on the old Lefora Forum when discussing the various colours of the 42b Studebaker Lark. Although it seemed like the obvious solution, after an awful lot of toing and froing, we came to the conclusion that there were simply too many variables (mainly the way colours are rendered on a monitor, but also people’s own colour perception).
Having everyone work with an agreed set of colour swatches would be the ideal solution I suppose, but not everyone can afford such luxuries, plus there is the issue of finding a set which is both available and identical Worldwide.
"simply too many variables"
But see this is why it works, and why color standards were invented. Your monitor sees a color differently than Ghosthunter's, and each of you see that color differently through your eyes, both from the screen and in person. But the crelationships between colors don't change. Your "light tan" may be different than Ghosthunter's but to each of you, it will always be the same color. When comparing it to "darker tan" it will always be in the same place on the color wheel regardless of how each person sees it. When you go to the shop to have your fender repaired, the bodyman your car is a different color to the bodyman than it is to you. But he is able to provide a match because the color of your car is standardized. Everyone sees red differently, but Ferrari Red is Ferrari Red no matter who is looking at it. When trying to match colors, I get as close as I can then I bring my possible choices to a woman. It's proven that they can see color differences that men can't. I always use the same woman because everyone sees color differently.

Physical paint chips are better than colors on a computer. Your eyes are reading the color directly and able to do a direct comparison with the toy. But not everyone can afford a library of paint chips. But something like this can go a long way toward your goal http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paint-Colour-Ch ... 1736484963 I've seen posts where people have spent £50 on a toy because it had a different color baseplate than another, surely they can chuck £25 so that everyone can agree what color that baseplate is. Physical comparison is how you write the definition.

Screen colors are interpreted by your monitor then your eyes read that color off the monitor. That's two levels of variation which is a problem. But there's an advantage in that color charts and comparisons are free and readily available.But if you tell someone that one yellow is RAL1033 (#ff9436) and another is RAL1037 (#f39f18), they can readily find a site that compares the two. Then they can say to themselves "Yes, that one is more yellowish (or brownish or reddish or whatever), now I know what to look for". Digital comparison is how you distribute the definition.

I have a library of thousands of colors. I have a crude spectrophotometer. Together, they only get me in the general vicinity of what I need. There are several standards that have to be sorted through looking for a match. Once a match is found, the paint rarely matches the chip. Generally the paint manufacturer's fault, and sometimes I have to try another vendor. Matching colors is expensive, getting in the general ballpark for comparison is nearly free.

I won't harp on the issue further, but I think that an imperfect solution is still a better solution than "light tan" vs 'dark yellow".
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Idris
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Re: 40a Bedford 7 Ton Tipper

Post by Idris »

Bernie wrote:...I think that an imperfect solution is still a better solution than "light tan" vs 'dark yellow".
I can't ague with that, but the difficulty seems to be in arriving at an imperfect solution which everyone agrees with and is prepared to use.
As a way forward, could I suggest that you take a model like the 35a horsebox or the 40a Tipper, where there are different shades of the brown/tan components, and give us your colour codes (plus any necessary hyperlinks) so that everyone can gain a feel for whether what you are proposing is viable?
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Idris
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Re: 40a Bedford 7 Ton Tipper

Post by Idris »

Bernie wrote:First. I must say that I find you people's attention to minor details to be worrisome.
Not everyone collects at that level of details. Some people just want one of each casting, some people collect colour variations, others extend their collecting to include wheel variations. Many collections adopt the "yard rule" which is that the difference must be visible from 3' away when the model is sat of a shelf. (How does this work for baseplate colours, I wonder?) It is only the hard core who are concerned with the minutiae of every single mould revision.
Bernie
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:54 am

Re: 40a Bedford 7 Ton Tipper

Post by Bernie »

Idris wrote:
Bernie wrote:...I think that an imperfect solution is still a better solution than "light tan" vs 'dark yellow".
I can't ague with that, but the difficulty seems to be in arriving at an imperfect solution which everyone agrees with and is prepared to use.
As a way forward, could I suggest that you take a model like the 35a horsebox or the 40a Tipper, where there are different shades of the brown/tan components, and give us your colour codes (plus any necessary hyperlinks) so that everyone can gain a feel for whether what you are proposing is viable?
I unfortunately cannot do that as I do not collect Matchbox. Further, if I did I would not have those variations at hand. I collect by the "yard rule". I look at the toys and say, do I like the yellow one or the blue one better and (usually) buy only the one.

In order to do a color evaluation, I would need the model in hand where I could look at it in natural light. I do have a few Matchbox here, and I'll try to post something to try and illustrate what might be accomplished.. The 4d Dodge stake truck is a hearty shade of yellow although I don't think there are any color variations. Perhaps if I can just pin down a color, people can see how my estimation compares with what can be found online. The 6d Ford pickup apparently does have color variations so I'll see if I can do anything with that, although mine is marred by rub-on lettering.

Even if we can get partly down the road with this, there is a major roadblock when it comes to metallic colors. Most color standards center around industrial and military uses and they spend little time on metallics. When I need to match a one of those, I use automotive paint chips and hope to find something among the Toyota charts. It's damn hard to get a pint of Wolseley paint in the correct shade here in the states.

I understand the difficulties that arise when trying to come up with a standard when everyone doesn't have the same tools. But as it's important to collectors, I think we should continue to work toward an amicable compromise. There are few posts here that apply to my particular interests, so I read a lot of Matchbox discussions. It seems that there are several Matchbox reference sources and that they often disagree. That's disappointing. What's more, I gather that you folks are creating yet another reference that contradicts some of what's already out there. Hopefully with a larger pool of examples and the additional knowledge that the internet has brought us, Nick's database will become definitive. I hate to see people with the same interests splintering off into various tribes with their own gods. I see enough of that with the divisions between those who collect 1:64, 1:43, and 1:24.

Off the record, I come down on the side that even and uneven loads should be classified separately.
kerbside
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Re: 40a Bedford 7 Ton Tipper

Post by kerbside »

Hello Bernie, even the 4d model has a Light Yellow and a Darker Yellow in the hand, and it shows on my monitor.

Image

George T.
kwakers
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Re: 40a Bedford 7 Ton Tipper

Post by kwakers »

I have just this week opened up my Matchbox USA Newsletter from August of 2015 to find a column done by Phillip Bowdidge, probably from quite a few years ago and now repeated once again. His "Oldies But Goodies" column features the 40a Bedford Tipper being discussed here, so I will re-list his variations here on our Forum for a comparison with Nick's present Codes on this Dumper:
Dump Wheels Axles Bumper Trim
1. Tan Metal Crimped With
2. Dark Tan Metal Crimped With
3. Pale Tan Gray Plastic Crimped With
4. Pale Tan Gray Plastic Crimped Without
5. Pale Tan Small Gray Plastic Crimped Without
6. Dark Tan Gray Plastic Crimped Without
7. Dark Tan Small Gray Plastic Crimped Without
8. Dark Tan Large Gray Plastic Crimped Without
9. Dark Tan Gray Plastic Rounded Without

Phillip's list indicates 3 distinct Tipper colours he had found, while red cab shades were not noted in his collection. My own notes are very similar on our collection, so now I must also compare our cab reds as close as George has in his above Post.........Kwakers
mrmoko
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Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:50 am

Re: 40a Bedford 7 Ton Tipper

Post by mrmoko »

Idris wrote:Welcome back, Dick! Your input on the many RW topics has been sorely missed.
Very true , Where is everyone . Have they all gone to another secret site ?
kerbside
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Re: 40a Bedford 7 Ton Tipper

Post by kerbside »

Yes welcome back to the fold Dick, a lot of water has flowed under the bridge since you were posting at the beginning of the year.

I was rather concerned as the pms I sent you in March and April remained with no reply, but I see my concerns were unfounded, :D :D

George T.
kwakers
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Re: 40a Bedford 7 Ton Tipper

Post by kwakers »

I had spaced my categories in the above Post so as to be readable and precise. It is now evident that somehow the electronic Forum monster has completely ignored my spacing and neatness (and my time spent) in accurately copying Phillip's chart. My Post looks a mess, but I do not have the smarts to correct it.....Off to my Thanksgiving roof project again.......A Very Frustrated Caveman Kwakers
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