69c Rolls Royce Silver Shadow

SMS88 · Post by **SMS88** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:39 pm

Re: 69c Rolls Royce Silver Shadow

Unread postby GHOSTHUNTER » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:32 pm
Hello nearlymint, thank's for the wheel numbers and the extra pictures of your 69c, with the 'long seat' moulding. Looking at the picture of the open boot, is very interesting but very frustrating at the same time, the body casting matches what I describe as...1st BODY-LATER BOOT, (the one with the curved back-wall to boot floor join) but with the 'longer seat moulding', therefore creating a new variation.

I have highlighted the middle car in my earlier picture with the red box around it, this is essentially your model, but with the 'longer seat' moulding, where-as 'MY' model with this same 'long seat' moulding, is the...1st BODY-EARLY BOOT...now try and sort all that out...

My head now hurts, I am going for a ly-down in a dark room,
GHOSTHUNTER.

There is a 3rd option - Lesney made 3 bodies in each tool , not 2 ! Only way to prove that is to look inside examples of both your type 1 bodies to see if they have the same or a different mould segment number

Post by **GHOSTHUNTER** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:53 pm

Hello SMS88, thank's for waking me up!

Yes, I agree with that idea, I have only the one spare model that is damaged and I can take that one to pieces and note any tool/mould code numbers, it is however a later body, 'MY' number 2 body in the last picture, but it may be useful in looking anyway.

At the Huntingdon toy fair on Sunday just gone, only one blue 69c was there and that was also a number 2 body, (small door locks and smooth rear bumper cut-out for the tow hook arm), it has a pale yellow base, no windscreen and tan hood, no other examples anywhere.

All versions seem to be getting hard to find in the U.K., at all the toy fairs I have attended this year.

Regards,
GHOSTHUNTER.

Post by **GHOSTHUNTER** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:50 am

: Number 1 body.JPG (32.31 KiB) Viewed 2264 times

Here is a picture from my computer, of the only other 'long seat' moulding model, I was aware of. The sharp edges to the rear bumper cut-out for the tow hook arm, tell me this is a type 1 body casting.

Now "nearlymint" has found a 'long seat' model, that makes three examples we know of so far, hopefully more will be found and by forum members, not just on E-bay, out of reach, but at toy fairs etc.

GHOSTHUNTER.

SMS88 · Post by **SMS88** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:53 am

I have 2 blue SF69c drilled apart - body #1 + Body #4 so i can now confirm that there are 4 different bodies in production at the same time.Body #4 has very square cut area around the boot hinges & rounded cut out edges for the tow hook slot.Body #1 has a faint ejector ring between the hinges and may match the furthest left car for hinge aperture shape,it also has square cut tow hook slot.

Post by **GHOSTHUNTER** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:11 am

That's very kind of you SMS88 for doing that, it will become very useful in working out what was made in more or less what order. I will definately try and find some 'breaker' models to do the same, so hopefully we can put the details together and create a fuller picture of the body castings.

Anyone else with breaker models of 69c, please do the same, unless your 'breaker' is unusual and you don't want to take it to pieces, that's understandable.

Regards,
GHOSTHUNTER.

Post by **GHOSTHUNTER** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:36 pm

69c BODY CASTING NUMBERS...

I have found it possible to see the 'CASTING NUMBERS' on the underside of the bonnet, on the blue models, so it will not require the purchase of 'breakers' to take to pieces. I have not recorded all of them at the moment, just a few, after seeing the number on the one example I have taken apart and realising it is just possible to see the number through the front wheel arch, while shining a torch through the other side arch.

I will look at all my nine examples and the few gold examples, to see what sort of pattern develops, it should then be possible to work out what body castings were originally paired together on the main 'sprue' directly after ejection from the moulds.

GHOSTHUNTER.

SMS88 · Post by **SMS88** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:06 pm

No roof on these so they would require less thickness inside the tool.Dont know if there was one tool with upto 4 bodies or 2 tools with 2 or 3 bodies each.Remember for some models from these days it is possible one segment carries no casting number and some carry ´0´ . So we could discover 1-4 , 0-5 or 1-6 with blanks instead of numbers anywhere in the sequence.Its easy to read 1 because its so big however 4 is smaller and partially obscured by front bumper tab so its not that easy to look inside and read correctly with my eyes!

Post by **GHOSTHUNTER** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:17 pm

SMS88 wrote:No roof on these so they would require less thickness inside the tool.Dont know if there was one tool with upto 4 bodies or 2 tools with 2 or 3 bodies each.Remember for some models from these days it is possible one segment carries no casting number and some carry ´0´ . So we could discover 1-4 , 0-5 or 1-6 with blanks instead of numbers anywhere in the sequence.Its easy to read 1 because its so big however 4 is smaller and partially obscured by front bumper tab so its not that easy to look inside and read correctly with my eyes!

I noticed that some of the large numbers, (physical size, not value) are done free-hand with a sharp instrument like a scribe, but the smaller numbers are very uniform as if they were stamped, using a metal number stamp-set and so far, the smaller numbers like '4' and '3' were easy to see, but the larger ones are close to that bumper tab you mention.

Back soon with more info, so until then, cheers SMS88,
GHOSTHUNTER.

Post by **GHOSTHUNTER** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:51 pm

I have now got round to looking inside the bonnet areas of my 69c models.

'MY' body casting 1,(large door locks and sharp tow hook area bumper edges), have the number 1 or 2, this includes the model with the longer seat moulding.
'MY' body casting 2,(small door locks and smooth tow hook area bumper edges), have the number 3 or 4.
These are all 'Blue' bodied models.

Then my small-arch 'Gold' model has the number 4.
Then my large-arch 'Gold' model has the number 3, or 4.
Then my large-arch 'Lime-Gold' model has the number 3.

From this, its suggesting that two pairs of bodies were part of the same main sprue set, '1' and '2' on one side and '3' and '4' on the other side, or, just bodies '1' and '2' on a main sprue, so they were only casting two bodies at a time, but I am sure they would rather cast more bodies at the same time, so we are back to the four bodies, all being cast at the same time, phew! I think that's what I mean.

Your views and expert opinion on this please, SMS88 and chfalkensteiner.

Regards,
GHOSTHUNTER.

SMS88 · Post by **SMS88** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:19 pm

We know from the MOD Tractor story that such was demand, 2 tools were made to run on 2 diecasting machines at the same time. Its difficult today to prove whether or not it was one tool with 4 segements or 2 tools each with 2 segments however we do know that 4 of these bodies could probably be cast in the same size mould as used for larger KingSize castings so both are possible.The common qualities that link 1+2 and 3+4 would indicate these one pair of twins were cut at the same time with the difference perhaps down to a different person doing each pair which increases the odds of 2 separate jobs = 2 separate tools.
A survey of members cars to see if there are more blue 1 or 2 and more gold 3 or 4 might demonstrate statistical probability of 2 separate tools made at different times with one wearing out before production ended.........