ford zodiac mk.iv silver hubs

[SMS88]

You may well be right, Dave.
The reason I wrote about suspension strips is that I once handled a faked silver-hubbed example where something had gone very wrong at the rear end resulting it what was effectively a collapsed rear suspension. I would be interested in seeing one of these models opened up in order to better understand how this could happen and thereby also determine whether simply swapping over both wheel-sets is actually possible. (Where's Antonin when you need him?)

Addendum: I've just dug one out of my collection. I definitely think there is some kind of suspension strip at the rear, but not at the front which is rock hard. So we may well both be correct!

Suspension at the rear on Zodiacs collapses easily because the clear plastic tinted strip breaks easily as the rear wheels can travel up a fair few mm whilst constrained by the diecast hoops holding them to the baseplate -front axle cant move so much because the engine gets in the way and wheels can rub if front end of suspension strip breaks - same design used in many RW like 64 MG, 8 Mustang, 67 VW,55 + 59 Galaxies.......

[Idris]

Thanks for the explanation, Mick.
Do you think it would be possible to swap the wheel-sets over if the baseplate were off the body, or would further dismantling of either the wheels or the baseplate assembly be required?

[Dave R]

While I think Mick is exaggerating a bit with his "fair few mm" of rear suspension travel, he's perfectly correct that there is much more travel on the Zodiac's rear suspension than the front (which is so slight it may seem nonexistent), and I'm pretty sure the Zodiac suspension is, like Mick says, typical of other late '60s RW, a clear or tinted transparent plastic piece held in place by the interior (not attached to the baseplate). Hopefully someone will post photos of a disassembled Zodiac (as my junk box is buried so deep I can't find it), but again, all the RW cars with suspension seem to be constructed the same way (except maybe the ones with Autosteer) and looking at the inside of any late '60s car baseplate would be the same — or just look at an earlier car's baseplate, with visible axles, and imagine it upside down.

The only way a faker could use the axles and wheels as a "wheel-set" to swap out would be to actually cut each of the four half-round diecast "hoops" (as Mick calls them) holding the axle to the baseplate, on both a donor car with same-length axles, and a Zodiac. Thinking about it, I suppose this could be done either by breaking them off, switching axles, and gluing the "hoops" back on; or by cutting a slot (wide enough for the axle) in each "hoop"; but either way I think the alterations would be visible to someone closely inspecting that area of the baseplate inside the wheel.

Dave R

[SMS88]

As Dave says either the baseplate wheel retaining hoops would need to be cut or wheels would need to be removed from their axles or axles cut and glued together in the centre for this wheel swap to be done. Axle ends look good in photos, so if there has been any swapping cut´n´shut axles is the easiest cheat to hide - I wonder how well the car rolls -any irregularity could be indication of axles glued together

[Idris]

Informative contributions. Thank you, Mick and Dave.
Although"cut' n' shut" axles appeal because this leave not only the peened ends but also the baseplate rivet intact, as Mick highlights, it does create its own issue in terms of aligning both ends of the axle correctly. I can therefore see mileage in cutting the axle hoops, dropping the replacement axles in, and then closing the hoops again by some means, although this then leaves the problem of a convincing baseplate rivet. I suppose it's swings and roundabouts from a fakers' point of view. Which can he do best and which is most likely to get past a collector's initial scrutiny?
Even if we can't determine how the wheels have been done, one thing's for sure: with that body casting, this is a fake.

[yellowfoden]

Hello Roberto, Hugh, Reg, Mick, Dave and all,

Firstly my apologies for not adding this to this post earlier but winter rains and flooding have given us a few power problems here. So the following was to be posted last Friday so I will add unedited version anyhow with my photos. Forgive me as it part repeats what Dave has posted but with photos and casting detail theory.

I note that lesney0905 Roberto, has not confirmed the body casting type to date.

I would like to suggest a couple of points / corrections to this thread.

Whilst the axles do have suspension on the regular wheel model the axles are held in place by the base plate casting arch opening (see my attached photos), unlike the superfast model where it is held by the plastic suspension.

So to add the chrome hubs with tyres and axles (wheel sets) as complete units does not apply to the RW 53c as axles need to be fed through the base plate arch opening then under the suspension through the base plate arch opening on other side and then have second wheel fitted and then small axle end finished.

So therefore the rivet and base plate concern does not apply in the case of doing wheel swap on the regular wheel model.

Idris wrote
The engine compartment looks to be without the central tab. If so, then (according to Nick's catalogue page) the body is a later casting which means that the model cannot be a pre-production.

However the angle at which the two photographs were taken and provided by lesney0905 of the engine view are too steep to show the cross member (brace) that has the small tab between the two blocks.
The carby air cleaner is obscuring the view of tab position. On the models I checked I can only see the tab when viewed more to the side. If you look at the photo on Nicks variation page the carby is sitting lower on his and you can see the cross brace and tab. Not all engines sit that low on every model.

Lesney0905 needs to show us this view to the side or definitely confirm it has tab OR no tab.

Given that the rivet does not need to be touched to fit new wheels it means we are back to comparing hubs and axle ends to determine if this is genuine. The current photos are not in focus or of a high enough quality to make judgement on the axle ends.

Roberto, could you please tell us if your model has the central tab or not and add some close up clear photos of small axle ends. Thanks.

Apologies again for the bit of duplicating but hope the photos will help answer the question of casting.

Bert

[lesney0905]

Hello Bert, I managed to remove the tires from the model, and I saw all the details that you have stated in your post: there is the suspension bar of green plastic, the cover axis of the frame are perfectly intact, and behind the air filter is the bar you are talking about, therefore the only way to forge the model is through the end of the wheel axles. reviewed carefully by a good magnifying glass, I can say 100% that they are intact! conclusion I can say with my joy that the model is not a falso.thanks Roberto.I attach the photos, unfortunately I do not have a camera with high resolution.

[lesney0905]

photo

[SMS88]

If axles are not cut´n´shut and if all axle ends are 100% factory made then that leaves the possibility that one or more old stock pre-pro baseplate was either thrown into the production line or this model was handmade by R & D when they needed one as parts were handy - perhaps for a box or catalog artist.........

[Diecast]

You may well be right, Dave.
The reason I wrote about suspension strips is that I once handled a faked silver-hubbed example where something had gone very wrong at the rear end resulting it what was effectively a collapsed rear suspension. I would be interested in seeing one of these models opened up in order to better understand how this could happen and thereby also determine whether simply swapping over both wheel-sets is actually possible. (Where's Antonin when you need him?)

Addendum: I've just dug one out of my collection. I definitely think there is some kind of suspension strip at the rear, but not at the front which is rock hard. So we may well both be correct!

Sorry Hugh, I was on business trip in Israel and Germany.
Antonin