No windows - variation or large scale error

[David Tilley]

This is something I have often wondered about. When you have certain models that come with either windows or no windows in large quantities, are they still classed as errors, or are they official variations?

Take this model for instance. The Ford Model A was introduced in cream with a green base, and came with or without windows. But then they released it in dual green but it still came with or without windows.

When you find odd models without windows, you automatically know it is an error model. But on models like this, was it a case of they should have them, but somebody forgot all about it, and loads were made without realizing the mistake. I know this model is listed in books as official variations without windows, but does anyone know if they were officially designed from the outset to be made without them? After all, if a large enough quantity of an error is made, but it is a passable error, isn't it just as easy to send them out anyway? Saves losing them. The Ford Model A is a model that could pass without windows and not alter the aesthetics of the model, whereas some models would be totally weird without them. Can you imagine a Vauxhall Guildsman being sold in large quantities without windows?

[ChFalkensteiner]

Many variations have come about due to errors; there is often (though not always) no point in even making a distinction between the two concepts.

Surely, if a large quantity was released without windows, that must be classed and catalogued as a variation. Also many early regular wheel models first appeared without window glazing, and later on the glazing was added. There are even those few cases where common variations have no windows while rare ones have windows; most famous examples being the regular wheel 23c Bluebird Dauphine and the Superfast 38f Ford Camper (camper windows).

So to me a "large scale error" is always a variation as well. I do not know if there was a deliberate decision to leave out the windows on the Model A or not, but I really do not care. This is one of several cases in which the question "error or variation" would have to be answered "both".

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Hi guys,

Would the model be classed as a 'Negative Variation', a model that for some reason has an odd specification, defying it's position in a guide listing.
If enough examples of the same model could be found, then I think it should be classed as a proper Variation, suggesting at least one full production batch must have been done, unfortunately, the pictured model could be made like this, by removing the glazing while in situ, just so a collector can say..."OH YES, I HAVE ALL VERSIONS OF THE MODEL 'A' FORD", ETC, ETC...

I have a Dinky toys Rolls-Royce made in the late 1960's, a period when all the models in the range have glazing and just like the Ford, minus it's glazing, but the rest of the model is in very good condition, not displaying any signs of forced removal of the glazing, but the model is not designed to come apart, it's solid riveted, so it has either been made like it at the factory, or someone has removed it from the model by breaking it very carefully in to small pieces and then tipping them all out. There is not an official variation of the Rolls like this, so I don't know why it is like it and I certainly have not classed it as a variation in my own collection.

Going back to, "If enough examples of the same model could be found", there will have to be a minimum number found, agreed by members of the forum and overseen by Nick, (It's his forum so he has the final say on the matter), so if only five examples were found, that's not enough to qualify, but if something like 45 examples were found, then that would qualify as a proper variation and clearly indicating a batch was made at the factory and not on someones workbench.

Regards,
GHOSTHUNTR.