10 ton pressure refueller n° with black wheels

[lesney0905]

I forgot: the model is also mentioned in the Charlie Mack's book

[motorman]

I forgot: the model is also mentioned in the Charlie Mack's book

Not the most reliable reference guide!!

[johnboy]

I think I'm way off here, but this isn't the same model that surfaced a few years ago is it? A forum member posted a whole bunch of vhtf/rare models in a small display case. Most went on ebay (I remember a refueller with bpw and a 28b with gpw) I think they were all fakes.

[motorman]

I think I'm way off here, but this isn't the same model that surfaced a few years ago is it? A forum member posted a whole bunch of vhtf/rare models in a small display case. Most went on ebay (I remember a refueller with bpw and a 28b with gpw) I think they were all fakes.

Correct JB every one was a HTF or never seen before variation and all of them were fakes if my memory is correct

[Diecast]

Some models are very, very rare, but it does not mean they do not exist. Just remember a very rare Jason´s 65b Jag with BPW ø9,5x20 or my Jag with SPW ø9x24 (cofirmed by Jason also) or my Jag with GPW ø9,5x20 (three unlisted variations by one model!!!!!!). We must avoid "the witch trials" and do not condemn everything what is unknown or not common. As Dick (Kwakers) has several times mentioned, it is so nice and exciting to find a new variations even after 50 years.
Antonin

[lesney0905]

totally agree!

[Tinman]

I agree with Dick, the only thing what is suspecious: "The holes in the center of these black wheels look to have been drilled out to slip over those smaller ends of these Tankers axles". The ends of the axles are absolutely in the norm. I can show you dozens of photos with a similar or same axle ends. Some are smaller, some are higher, some are straight, some are slanting, some are flat, some are rounded, some have sharper ends, some have rounded ends, ......and most of them have the "rays" from the center, but not all and that all sometimes on the same model (exactly as it is on the photos from lesney0905). The silver ends (with no rust) are typically in the areas where the wheels rotate relativelly to the axles and they polished the surface from the rust. It could be also the traces of the file, but the traces, in my opinion, are too "nice" to be from the file. The wheels have really larger diameter and they were (very probably) pressed over the riveted ends.
Antonin

You have obviously discounted the flat file marks on the axle ends and the tooling marks where pliers or a similar tool held the axle and left parallel marks on it:
Tooling marks on axle round over.
Tooling marks on axle.
Distress damage to plastic around hole in wheel.
Signs of drilling the wheel supports.
Oversize hole in wheel.

These are way too many "signs" on one model to be giving it a green light.

[Diecast]

I agree with Dick, the only thing what is suspecious: "The holes in the center of these black wheels look to have been drilled out to slip over those smaller ends of these Tankers axles". The ends of the axles are absolutely in the norm. I can show you dozens of photos with a similar or same axle ends. Some are smaller, some are higher, some are straight, some are slanting, some are flat, some are rounded, some have sharper ends, some have rounded ends, ......and most of them have the "rays" from the center, but not all and that all sometimes on the same model (exactly as it is on the photos from lesney0905). The silver ends (with no rust) are typically in the areas where the wheels rotate relativelly to the axles and they polished the surface from the rust. It could be also the traces of the file, but the traces, in my opinion, are too "nice" to be from the file. The wheels have really larger diameter and they were (very probably) pressed over the riveted ends.
Antonin

You have obviously discounted the flat file marks on the axle ends and the tooling marks where pliers or a similar tool held the axle and left parallel marks on it:
Tooling marks on axle round over.
Tooling marks on axle.
Distress damage to plastic around hole in wheel.
Signs of drilling the wheel supports.
Oversize hole in wheel.

These are way too many "signs" on one model to be giving it a green light.

Your remarks 1 and 2 are the same.
"Tooling marks on axle round over.
Tooling marks on axle."

I can add another similar remarks:
Tooling marks on axle on the left
Tooling marks on axle on the right
.....
.....
I do not see any visible or suspicious traces on the axles, from the enclosed photos it is impossible to assert responsibly that they were manipulated.

Your remarks 3, 4, 5 have the same meaning, but each in other words, and they coincide with what Dick said, and what I am asserting too.
"Distress damage to plastic around hole in wheel.
Signs of drilling the wheel supports.
Oversize hole in wheel."

Antonin

[lesney0905]

Sorry if I insist but I would like to know how he did (the forger) has come axes inside the wheels without damaging them visibly .I try to make out the wheels by the axes but it is impossible! Their hole is too small! Then the hole of the "wheel arches "is also too small to make pass the head of axes.Thanks.

[Idris]

I think I'm way off here, but this isn't the same model that surfaced a few years ago is it? A forum member posted a whole bunch of vhtf/rare models in a small display case. Most went on ebay (I remember a refueller with bpw and a 28b with gpw) I think they were all fakes.

Correct JB every one was a HTF or never seen before variation and all of them were fakes if my memory is correct

That was our friend Jasmine Green.