#127 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud III.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Hello Fred7A.
It is a very interesting model you have shown us. Various details show it to be a Dinky colour trial for the metallic Red model that would be introduced in 1972.
Details that confirm this to be an earlier Gold coloured model are as follows...

Mat Black baseplate without the 'UK' at the start of the 'PAT APP FOR' at the rear of the baseplate. (UK was added to the base in 1970).
Smooth under surface of the open bonnet panel. (Only the last One or Two 'Gold' issues have the stepped bonnet panel and all Red models after these).
The Orange interior moulding. (fortunately visible because the dash panel sticker has gone missing).
"UVR 576B" Index plate. (used on the first Turquoise models and at least the first Three 'Gold' models, but never on a Red model).

Other details would also confirm the true date of production but they are not seen in the pictures, like the type of rear bumper moulding and grille badge size, but to determin these the model needs to be held in the hand or perfectly clear pictures made available.

If the model can be found, I await further pictures before I can add more information and some final comments.

GHOSTHUNTER.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Regards the scale of this model, because the axles are not a tight fit into the base, they can be positioned in such a way it allows for Two wheelbase lengths to be recorded and I put the model on end as if it were standing on it's nose so the axles have to settle where they can and take a measurement, then I reverse this so the model is sitting on it's rear end and let the axles settle again and measure the wheelbase, by doing it this way both axles are at their lowest point within the channel designed for them in the baseplate.

GHOSTHUNTER.

[SMS88]

This is a really interesting thread. I ‘ve never seen that Zodiac-wheeled version before and wasn’t even aware of that variation! The blue base mentioned by Ghosthunter is also new to me - do you have any pictures? I’m guessing this would be on the red version from the dating of other blue base Dinkies, which would give an “interesting” colour combination!

I have a couple of gold cars with comically mismatched shades on the bonnets and doors. This model is riveted, so it wouldn’t be too easy to swap these over, but would Dinky really have sent out items with seriously non-matched paintwork. I’ll take a picture when I get a chance.

I have an oddball red Roller which is a bit of a puzzle as it doesn’t have the late features usually on this version. It has the early base with no holes, and the bonnet and doors are gold underneath (I have several Dinkies were components have been repainted in this way). The red is a little darker than the usual shade, and the painting on the lights matches the style used on the turquoise and gold cars. The interior is white, but it looks like it has been painted over orange. This is bizarre and I wouldn’t expect this to be original, but I can’t see any evidence that it’s been apart at all, and this item doesn't feel like a repaint to me. Here are a few photos I took a while ago, but annoyingly the toy has gone into hiding at the moment. Any opinions on this welcome! I mean on the model, not the fact that I've managed to mislay it.







Regarding the 1/42 – 1/43 question, I’m not sure. 10’ 3” is actually 3124.2mm. The wheelbase is possibly just over 73mm – at 73.5mm that puts the scale at 1/42.5! I agree that the wheelbase is a much better measurement to take than the overall length.

Looks like a genuine Dinky factory colour trial with opening components tray painted red . THis red candy coat would be lighter when more commonly applied over silver rather than gold primer - use of primer saved the expense of polishing the metal underneath which would otherwise show unsightly toning shadows which Hotwheels used to polish out before painting with these tinted clear candy coats

[Fred7A]

I found my Silver Cloud! Bizarrely it was in the cabinet where it belongs, and which I had searched several times. Either I'm becoming blind and stupid, or this toy has spent a week in a parallel dimension before coming back home. I've taken some new pictures, although I'm not sure they're clear enough for Ghosthunter to check. Alongside is a standard red Cloud for comparison.

[Fox]

Mismatched shades are, unfortunately, a common thing on gold variations...

And I agree with you Kevin. I still use wheel base to measure scale model. Especially when looking at special coachworks on separate chassis as Silver Wraith or Phantom.

Nice red variations. It's a real pleasure to see it. Thanks for sharing.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Hello again Fred7a.

Thank you very much for the extra pictures. While not totally perfect, I have managed to see some important details that has given me a good date of production for your 'Colour Trial' model.

The Gold body colour...This matches my examples form mid to late 1964.
The Orange interior...This matches my examples from mid to late 1964.
The disc in front of the inlet manifold...This is very low, bodies cast after this low disc have it a full 1mm high, if it were possible to measure yours it would be about a quarter of a millimeter high.
The rear seat detail...difficult to see clearly, but I believe it is the later seat moulding, where the back seat was modified so the top of the back rest goes down onto the rear parcel shelf at an angle, making the shelf itself have reduced stowage area. The top edges of the cushion detail on the back rest itself, does not finish evenly, seats upto yours do and they can easily be seen as different mouldings when you put an early and late model together for comparison. This later seat moulding was phased into production across late 1964 into 1965.
The dash panel sticker...Sadly it has gone missing, but from the uncovered area it has left, it looks like it could have been the sticker borrowed from the big Phantom V (#152), which on my own example is fitted to a 1965 model but there may be an earlier model I am missing with it.
The Grille moulding...I have identified this as a Mk 3 design with the step directly behind the number plate, small aux lamps and a small mascot (despite yours having gone for a walk!). I was just able to make out certain moulding faults on the front surface of the Grille.
The rear bumper...This is a Mk4 design with open tow-hole (apparent when you look through the tow-hole in the base), and a narrow R-R badge.
The baseplate...This is a Mk2 design and was not used on many versions of this model, it does not have the UK in front of the 'PAT APP FOR' at the rear of the base and this 'PAT APP FOR' is away from the exhaust pipe and no base holes for fixing into the new 'Clear-View' perspex boxes. It looks like the baseplate is old stock as this is the only item that does not match the others date wise.
They also made hard plastic steering wheels upto 1965, but softer plastic steering wheels from 1965 onwards, if your model is from late 1964, it should have the hard one, 1965, it will be the soft one.

Given all the above, I think we have pinned down a good date of production or fabrication to be more accurate, of your 'Colour Trial' Dinky Rolls-Royce.

I welcome any further comments about the information above in relation to this model.

GHOSTHUNTER.

[Fred7A]

Wow, I am amazed at your in-depth knowledge of all the minor detail differences on this model! Seeing how late the red model was released, it is surprising that this model Is so much earlier. I'll certainly be happy for you to have a good look at this model at a toy fair.

I thought it was only Matchbox models which were scrutinised to this level of detail. In my experience a lot of people don't worry so much about small Dinky variations, so it's great to see this much information. That reminds me that I said I'd take pictures of my different Hillman Imps...

[GHOSTHUNTER]

One of the benefits of having a large collection of models is the ability to study all the details and put them into a 'Time-Line' and see the production process pan-out in front of you.

GHOSTHUNTER.

[Fox]

I don't remember if this Dinky model can have different letter on the glass part (on the roof part inside the car).
Some have different one. I will try to take a look at that.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

I currently have these glazing units...

'A'
'B'

'D'
'E'
'F'

'C' is missing, but they are not used alphabetically in production, so finding 'A' mouldings inside Red models is not unusual.

GHOSTHUNTER.