#127 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud III.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Just in time for Christmas.jpg (86.09 KiB) Viewed 2223 times

This model was featured in another thread with discussion about the colours, seats and the scale. It was introduced into the range in December 1964 and is a good example of a model from Dinky with features from 'SPOT-ON' and came about because 'TRI-ANG' the maker of Spot-On models, took over 'MECCANO' the maker of Dinky Toys, earlier in the Year.

Aqua Green issue.jpg (19.91 KiB) Viewed 2223 times

I know of Four body colours...
Aqua Green with dark Orange seats.
Light Gold with dark Orange, light Blue or Cream seats.
Dark Gold with dark Orange seats.
Red with Cream seats.

Among these you have Matt Black, Gloss dark Grey, Satin Black, Silver, High Gloss Black, and Bright Blue baseplate colours.

There is a multidude of variations of rear bumper, seats, chassis castings, dash panel stickers and grille mouldings.

On an old 1993 dated listing of models I know of, I have 16 versions listed with only 4 actually missing from my collection.

GHOSTHUNTER.

[Fox]

I even had in my hands a red version with "sun" wheels.

Here is a picture of mine.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Yes, the 'Star' wheels exist on the last production issues from 1973, with a high Gloss Black baseplate, Mk3 rear bumper with a narrow 'R-R' badge and open tow-hole, Mk3 or Mk4 grille moulding (which until I post the full versions listing you'l be wondering what the differences are!), and so on.

Here is a 'Star' wheel, seen on model number 124, the Rolls-Royce Phantom V.

'Star' wheel design..JPG (16.88 KiB) Viewed 2214 times

These last version models with the 'Star' wheels are very hard to find.

GHOSTHUNTER.

[SMS88]

Certainly the turned wheels were Spot On designed and perhaps even made in the Northern Ireland factory and it could be argued that Spot On beat Dinky to having chromed plastic bumpers however the casting is pure Dinky with its engraved boot shut lines whereas Spot On tooled models always had raised outlines of non opening parts which was a cheaper and simpler way to cut tooling which was also favoured by Lesney until 1968 when they improved detailing by cutting grooves instead of having raised lines on bodywork to represent non-opening parts ! Also the scale is pure 1/43,which Spot On only introduced on their final handful of new castings including the Austin 1800 and Jag S type under Dinky influence!

[GHOSTHUNTER]

The raised panel shut-lines on Spot-On models are a distinct feature of that range, but they did make a model with proper perceived gaps for the panel shut-lines, the Jaguar Mk10 introduced during 1963, but it is odd that they did not adopt the tooling method for the rest of the range!

GHOSTHUNTER.

[Idris]

The raised panel shut-lines on Spot-On models are a distinct feature of that range, but they did make a model with proper perceived gaps for the panel shut-lines, the Jaguar Mk10 introduced during 1963, but it is odd that they did not adopt the tooling method for the rest of the range!

The issue here is probably one of cost combined with ease of tool manufacture.
For a raised shut-line on the finished model, all that is required is to cut a grovve in the tool in the appropriate place. For a gap, the shut-line must be proud of the rest of the tool, i.e. all the surrounding panels must be machined away so that the shut-line forms a raised ridge.

[Fox]

An old picture I took in oct. 2011.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

The true scale.

The scale of model cars has chopped and changed over the Years with very few commercial toy or model makers adopting a constant scale and this was a big selling point coined by the Spot-On company when they launched their range of Diecast made model vehicles in February 1959. The constant scale they chose was however a little odd when compaired to the scales in use by Corgi, Dinky and Matchbox.

Corgi and Dinky were quit happy using 1/48th as their 'Common' scale, moving into 1/43rd scale in the mid-60's, but Spot-On adopted 1/42 meaning models looked bigger than they should when parked next to Corgi or Dinky toys.

When 'TRI-ANG' purchased the part of 'MECANNO' making Dinky Toys in February 1964, it put it's own Spot-On range to one side and concentrated on the Dinky brand and several ideas seen on Spot-On vehicles came over onto the Dinky vehicles, like the distinctive spun Alloy wheel hubs and separate 'Chrome' effect bumpers and grille mouldings.

It was also thought newly introduced models were upscaled into the 1/42nd used for Spot-On models because the new Dinkies of this period had a certain 'Bulkiness' to them and for my own part, I like to measure my examples to get the exact scale which when adding super details etc is important to me, but I had not got round to measuring the Silver Cloud III and assumed (wrongly as it turned out!), this model was in 1/42nd scale. On Mick's ("SMS88") advice, I changed the scale of this in my own media for this model and I have had a chance to measure it properly, with the results below.

The real car has a wheelbase of 10' 3'' (10 feet 3 inches), the Dinky model has a wheelbase of 73mm. convert 10' 3'' to Millimeters and you get 3136.5 mm.
If the model was 1/42, we can divide 3136.5 by 42 and we get a wheelbase of 74.67.
If the model was 1/43, we can divide 3136.5 by 43 and we get a wheelbase of 72.94.
Its pretty obvious now which measurement is the closest to a wheelbase of 73mm to make the model 1/43rd scale.

I do not use the overall length of the bodywork for working out scales of model cars, because this is an area prone to the toolmaker's 'Artistic License' and a good example of this is the Dinky Toys #158, Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow saloon introduced in 1967, having a wheelbase close enough for a standard saloon car, but a body length closer to a Long wheelbase car, (Both of which were available from Rolls-Royce, but not until 1969!).

GHOSTHUNTER.

[SMS88]

The true scale.

The scale of model cars has chopped and changed over the Years with very few commercial toy or model makers adopting a constant scale .............
It was also thought newly introduced models were upscaled into the 1/42nd used for Spot-On models because the new Dinkies of this period had a certain 'Bulkiness' to them and for my own part, I like to measure my examples to get the exact scale which when adding super details etc is important to me, but I had not got round to measuring the Silver Cloud III and assumed (wrongly as it turned out!), this model was in 1/42nd scale. On Mick's ("SMS88") advice, I changed the scale of this in my own media for this model and I have had a chance to measure it properly, with the results below.

The real car has a wheelbase of 10' 3'' (10 feet 3 inches), the Dinky model has a wheelbase of 73mm. convert 10' 3'' to Millimeters and you get 3136.5 mm.
If the model was 1/42, we can divide 3136.5 by 42 and we get a wheelbase of 74.67.
If the model was 1/43, we can divide 3136.5 by 43 and we get a wheelbase of 72.94.
Its pretty obvious now which measurement is the closest to a wheelbase of 73mm to make the model 1/43rd scale.

I do not use the overall length of the bodywork for working out scales of model cars, because this is an area prone to the toolmaker's 'Artistic License' and a good example of this is the Dinky Toys #158, Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow saloon introduced in 1967, having a wheelbase close enough for a standard saloon car, but a body length closer to a Long wheelbase car, (Both of which were available from Rolls-Royce, but not until 1969!).

GHOSTHUNTER.

Dinky would have got drawings and access to Earl Court Motor show exhibits from Rolls with permission to make this model so there is no reason not to assume that they made the new for 1969 version. Hot Wheels and Lesney would likely have got the same permission at near enough the same time to make the same model. Studying scale proportions may just prove all 3 toys came from the same master drawings or 1;1 show car.
Is there any truth in the rumour that the figures in the back of the black Phantom were intend to be 1965 Prince Charles and Princess Anne?

[Fred7A]

This is a really interesting thread. I ‘ve never seen that Zodiac-wheeled version before and wasn’t even aware of that variation! The blue base mentioned by Ghosthunter is also new to me - do you have any pictures? I’m guessing this would be on the red version from the dating of other blue base Dinkies, which would give an “interesting” colour combination!

I have a couple of gold cars with comically mismatched shades on the bonnets and doors. This model is riveted, so it wouldn’t be too easy to swap these over, but would Dinky really have sent out items with seriously non-matched paintwork. I’ll take a picture when I get a chance.

I have an oddball red Roller which is a bit of a puzzle as it doesn’t have the late features usually on this version. It has the early base with no holes, and the bonnet and doors are gold underneath (I have several Dinkies were components have been repainted in this way). The red is a little darker than the usual shade, and the painting on the lights matches the style used on the turquoise and gold cars. The interior is white, but it looks like it has been painted over orange. This is bizarre and I wouldn’t expect this to be original, but I can’t see any evidence that it’s been apart at all, and this item doesn't feel like a repaint to me. Here are a few photos I took a while ago, but annoyingly the toy has gone into hiding at the moment. Any opinions on this welcome! I mean on the model, not the fact that I've managed to mislay it.







Regarding the 1/42 – 1/43 question, I’m not sure. 10’ 3” is actually 3124.2mm. The wheelbase is possibly just over 73mm – at 73.5mm that puts the scale at 1/42.5! I agree that the wheelbase is a much better measurement to take than the overall length.