17 A DECALS

[MOKOSEX]

I was just going through some newly acquired models with my mate when we noticed the odd coloured decal on a maroon truck,i had another maroon truck and blue one handy so took a photo, the decals are clearly discoloured,just wondered if this was a common occurance?
dave

[mike]

Hi MOKOSEX.
I have this model:
Maybe I can help you with it.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3168&hilit=+46b

Prost Mike

[Moyboy]

A lot of Lesney decals turn yellow shades after a while whilst others don't seem to be affected as much. Maybe different suppliers using different glue on the backing of the decals.

[MOKOSEX]

I think both mike and mick are correct in its something thats happened to the glue which turned the letters yellow,looks quite good though lol
dave

[fixer]

Another thought maybe it's from a smokey environment

[kwakers]

The Blue 17A you have pictured is typical of ONLY that earliest blue version, and is very common on just that variation. Unlike the next waterslide type decals used on the rest of these 17As, the background seems to have been produced from a different style material thean the decals as we know them today. These seem to be of an early style transfer that chipped easier and darkened in background color as seen on yours, but still left the lettering bright white on these models. This early style transfer may have only been used on a partial run of the Blue color Vans, because a lot of them are still found with pristine clear background decals which are of a subsequent design or possibly from a different vendor. There are just too many of these early blue vans with dingy backgrounds on their 'decals' for them to have not been made differently or of a different early material used as their background. I have had both styles in blue for years now, but never really thought too much about them until just this morning with this Post. The early 14As used a different type of transfer, could just the earliest blue 17As have been done in a similar manner of similar materials also??
On the models with yellow background decals. We saw this yellow discoloring on some RW models in 1967-8, when some of the models were only 2-3 years old, and noted they may have been displayed in a store(?). The #5 Buses NEVER had these yellow backgrounds, but the 56As were known for them, leaving different decal producers as a possibility? Smoke damage is out in my opinion, they were in very large stores with adequate ventilation to dispel that theory for me. The yellow background decals usually appeared on just one side of our Toys, indicating that bright sunlight in a display could have been the offender, not our smoke-free house cellar with florescent lighting. Harold Colpitts has a note in his Lesney guide that is not definitive, but indicated he had also found the same mixture of labels in his early collection. To quote his 56A listing Note: "The white side decals are likely to turn yellow". None of our white ones have ever turned yellow while on display, leaving your question unanswered as to why some originals have had yellow backgrounds for 45 years now, while others don't change at all. I can only add that out of our stores in the 1960s, all these 56A decals were white when found new and boxed on the shelves. The yellow side decals were found on unboxed models that were maybe on display once, or those we found loose at Toy shows without ever knowing their history. I don't really know if we have any examples with BOTH equally yellow decals on them, I don't remember any we ever found that way. kwakers

[kwakers]

Your Maroon example seems like a totally original oddity in my opinion, not a 'Fade' at all, or ever a replacement decal. That was your original question, and I danced neatly around answering you on that single point. A very nice model as a variation if it were on my shelves.
Were we ever to have seen any of these 17A's with their lettering turning such a uniform colour in the U.S., I could possibly call yours 'fade', but I cannot say I have ever seen one as nice as yours. It will be interesting if now that yours has been noted, others will be found as spares or in our collections that we may not have paid much attention to in the past. kwakers

[Tinman]

Lesney decals were made by various vendors throughout the years. With regard to the decals on the number 17 Bedford vans, I've seen the same decal issues regularly occur with the blue, maroon and green issues. The problem of the decal film turning dark & gummy is not isolated to a specific variation or year of production and seems to affect all variants and years of production.

It could be due to a number of reasons and it's likely caused by more then one issue. I've owned multiple of the same variant codes and the decal has varied from pristine to gummy with a dark discolored background. Because this is a common occurrence, the issues are likely environmental associated with storage, display conditions and even ambient temperature ranges at the location where the model spent the longest venue.

[mike]

These are my models.
I think the Decal in the mid is not original.
? Or ?

[Tinman]

Yes Mike, that is a reproduction decal. Some collectors hate the way the original decals deteriorate and they completely remove them in favor of the reproduction decals. It does make the model show better and some collectors would rather have a nice display model.