#13d Dodge Wreck Truck REVERSE Wrecker help!!

[Idris]

[..the 1970 crimped issue were factory made..

The above statement should be prefixed by the words "Some people believe that...", and followed by the words "...whilst other do not.".

[motorman]

When i eventually write up my research notes on the 13d reverse wrecker, I will need to include the following foot note;

"The above comments contain information which is neither fact nor fiction, that will always create debate and argument ad infinitum and will never result in a definative and accurate antecedent history for this variation"

What a shame!!!!

[SMS88]

When i eventually write up my research notes on the 13d reverse wrecker, I will need to include the following foot note;

"The above comments contain information which is neither fact nor fiction, that will always create debate and argument ad infinitum and will never result in a definative and accurate antecedent history for this variation"

What a shame!!!!

No shame - this forum has finally got to the truth of this issue after years of confusion,guesswork and misleading published information from Stannard et al whose decades old guesswork is all valiantly defended by defender of the faith idris .
There is concrete evidence from respected Harold Colpitts that they were factory made collectables ordered from the factory by Joe Stone for Bob Brennan´s NAMC club in EXACTLY the same way as the purple + silver and red + white special versions of the SF32 tanker following on from 1960s shipments of #25 + #32 Aral tankers from Hackney to the club outside of the usual Bronner channels.

[motorman]

Mick, can you therefore confirm without doubt that these 1970 reverse wreckers were shipped unassembled to the USA??

And furthermore considering your suggestion that this model was specifically ordered for this select group of Matchbox collectors (predominantly American) why did they pick the 13d with the BP label??

[SMS88]

Mick, can you therefore confirm without doubt that these 1970 reverse wreckers were shipped unassembled to the USA??

And furthermore considering your suggestion that this model was specifically ordered for this select group of Matchbox collectors (predominantly American) why did they pick the 13d with the BP label??

Tinman here has confirmed that the crimps on these are identical to other known Lesney crimps he has seen & rivits are spun exactly like other Lesney rivits so I suggest you read through the old thread link and you will see that there is only PLENTY of evidence consistent with these 1970 wreckers being fully assembled at Hackney in Jack Odell´s R & D workshop.
Whoever suggests that they were UNASSEMBLED has yet to prove their integrity or offer a scrap of evidence for such a daft opinion which is in conflict with respected Harold Colpitts´s 1970 declaration + official Lesney letter.

[motorman]

Mick, can you therefore confirm without doubt that these 1970 reverse wreckers were shipped unassembled to the USA??

And furthermore considering your suggestion that this model was specifically ordered for this select group of Matchbox collectors (predominantly American) why did they pick the 13d with the BP label??

Tinman here has confirmed that the crimps on these are identical to other known Lesney crimps he has seen & rivits are spun exactly like other Lesney rivits so I suggest you read through the old thread link and you will see that there is only PLENTY of evidence consistent with these 1970 wreckers being fully assembled at Hackney in Jack Odell´s R & D workshop.
Whoever suggests that they were UNASSEMBLED has yet to prove their integrity or offer a scrap of evidence for such a daft opinion which is in conflict with respected Harold Colpitts´s 1970 declaration + official Lesney letter.

Thanks for that input Mick and i will be thoroughly digesting and dissecting the old threads as you have suggested

I do not intend to leave any rocks unturned!!

By the way I am still interested as to why the collectors club in the USA selected the 13d with the BP label?

[kwakers]

Please keep in mind Motorman that there were enough reverse color 1965 Wreckers shipped all over the world that are now in collections to consider the model an early production run, not just a small trial run as Mike Stannard suggested. Mike's research in the early 80s completely ignored our factual American Guides done in the early 1970s, but he did have personal access to Lesney's collection and possibly some of their documentation. There may not have been many reverse Wreckers sold or to be found in English collections in 1985, but dozens of the genuine 1965 reverse Wrecker are known to still survive here in the U.S.A. and they do come to market at a rate of one or two a year.
The 1965 reverse Wrecker model was pictured in, and has been found in the Garage Gift Sets of 1965, and was pictured in two different pictured displays in Fred Bronner's Lesney pocket catalogs, and if I remember correctly was even on the cover of his 1965 Dealers Book ( mine is upstairs). This is yet another time I have to agree with Mick SMS on what he has said above.
My personal knowledge of the 1970 issue confirms for me the fact that this version was done proudly as a Factory authorized 'Tribute' (For some very connected U.S. collectors ONLY) to the famous 1965 edition, not as a fake to fool anyone as to it being from 1965. The deliberate use of modern labels, crimped axles, and red hooks are simple proof of that. Decals, factory riveting machines, and used gray hooks were still available for use in 1970 if 'faking' were the true purpose of this second small reverse Wrecker production...........kwakers

[motorman]

My personal knowledge of the 1970 issue confirms for me the fact that this version was done proudly as a Factory authorized 'Tribute' (For some very connected U.S. collectors ONLY) to the famous 1965 edition, not as a fake to fool anyone as to it being from 1965. The deliberate use of modern labels, crimped axles, and red hooks are simple proof of that. Decals, factory riveting machines, and used gray hooks were still available for use in 1970 if 'faking' were the true purpose of this second small reverse Wrecker production...........kwakers

Thanks Dick for your comments that certainly make a lot of sense!!

*****I would like to clearly state at this juncture that i am not out to discredit the 1970 issue in any way, as a Matchbox enthusiast i find the mystery surrounding the 13d reverse wreckers a very intriguing subject, and my intention is to get some clear antecedent history on the whole subject from the 1965 issue to the 1970 issue. I am not out to mock or dismiss any individual theory and in that regard i welcome all comments and suggestions that may assist in compiling a clearer historical montage for this very rare variation.*****

[kwakers]

With all that has been said on the subject, I am very much of the same mindset as Idris in that I had no desire to own a 1970 reverse Wrecker when I was offered an original for a cheap $250 in the 70s. I knew the Seller very well, and I still buy some very nice Lesneys from him today, almost 40 years later. I also knew the main story of the tribute models that long ago, so decided only the 'original' 1965 version was of interest to me then. 40 more years have now passed without one of those 1965 'originals' in ANY condition on my shelves........Life still moves on.....
There are still some of the 1970 reverse Wreckers in the hands of their original owners or their heirs, but this second model has also been the subject of many bad fakers. On a more pleasant note, others have enjoyed making honest 'modern tribute models' of both reverse Wreckers, and have left the colors shades off, or perhaps marked the base or model in some way so that it cannot be mistaken as an original. Many collectors gain satisfaction by the mere appearance of this historic model on their shelves as a tribute modeled after either the 1965 or the 1970 variation. I am very grateful there are still honest modelers around who will satisfy the demand for a copy of this reverse Wrecker that will certainly exist for many years, just as it has since the green cab original was pictured in 1965, but released in quantities with the BP approved yellow cab shortly thereafter. kwakers

[Idris]

...this forum has finally got to the truth of this issue...

No it hasn't. It has come up with an alternative version of what might have happened all those years ago. There is still no proof either way.

[...official Lesney letter.

Ah, yes! The mythical letter which is mentioned when convenient but no copy of which has ever been forthcoming.