76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, Mystery solved?

[SMS88]

Hi Hugh.
The 7b Anglia and the 29b Cambridge were both made a good six months or more after the models that I have listed, They are well out of the timeline.
The six models I listed were all made in close succession and the models made before and after all replaced similar vehicle types, ie car for car, flatbed lorry for flatbed lorry etc but these six did not.

To quote the 40 years book,maximum 5 months separates 25b from 7b. Actual UK release dates were : the 25b was released in October 1960 (after originally being planned for July 1960) with 7b in March 1961 (no details of any earlier planned release date which may or may not come to light in future and could be earlier than July 1960). Until we can be 100% certain what was cast under no7 on the 7b its mere speculation whether that number was 79 or 30. Its worth noting that the 30b Magrius was the next model released after the 7b so if the 7b had originally been planned as 30b it is unlikely (but still possible) Lesney would waste time changing the tooling

[Idris]

Mick, you seem to be completely missing the thrust of Nick’s extremely sound and logical argument which, in a nutshell, is that models 77 and 79 must be represented by models which were released around the same time as the 27c (= 76a), 4c (= 78a) and 25b (=80a). The time gap between the release of the 25b and 7b is simply too long for the Anglia to have ever been 79a
Look at it another way, when the decision was taken to limit the range to 75 models, the 25b Volkswagen’s baseplate had not been tooled (there is no renumbering boss on it), yet it was released almost six months earlier than the Ford Anglia. If the Ford was indeed originally planned to be no. 79 and that is what is now hidden by the renumbering boss, why did that very minor baseplate alteration take so long to execute that the Volkswagen ended up being completed (including tooling of the baseplate) and issued so very far in advance of the 7b? It is just not credible.
Furthermore, I would suggest that your 57d/23e argument is not only irrelevant but spurious. The delay in issuing this model was caused by the decision to convert the whole range from RW to SF, meaning that there were fewer resources available for putting completely new models into production. In addition, as we both know, a major design change was associated with the conversion of the 57d to SF, namely the change from single to double axle necessitating major retooling of the base , sides and interior.

[SMS88]

Look at it another way, when the decision was taken to limit the range to 75 models, the 25b Volkswagen’s baseplate had not been tooled (there is no renumbering boss on it), yet it was released almost six months earlier than the Ford Anglia. If the Ford was indeed originally planned to be no. 79 and that is what is now hidden by the renumbering boss, why did that very minor baseplate alteration take so long to execute that the Volkswagen ended up being completed (including tooling of the baseplate) and issued so very far in advance of the 7b? It is just not credible.
Furthermore, I would suggest that your 57d/23e argument is not only irrelevant but spurious. The delay in issuing this model was caused by the decision to convert the whole range from RW to SF, meaning that there were fewer resources available for putting completely new models into production. In addition, as we both know, a major design change was associated with the conversion of the 57d to SF, namely the change from single to double axle necessitating major retooling of the base , sides and interior.

Max 5 months earlier
We know the 25b has an opening engine cover which was rather advanced fiddly feature for 1960.We know that the 23c caravan of 1960 was planned to have a wonderful lattice glazing unit which proved to be too ambitious for cost control on the production line. We also know the too heavy too costly Chieftan tank was also intended to be a 1960 1-75 model.
So I repeat my suggestion that the Anglia could have been planned to have an opening bonnet with engine cast on baseplate 25b and 65b style and the 5 month delay in its release would be due to the cost cutting retooling simplifications.
But as I said earlier the 10c is also a very strong candidate to be 79a and the Anglia a very strong candidate to be 30b and if we ever find out the truth from Lesney records (Harvey didnt know and he has seen more than anybody else) my money is on these 2 being 79a and 30b respectively but it doesnt blind me from considering the obvious alternative explanation for the platform under No.7!

[Idris]

...and the Anglia a very strong candidate to be 30b...

I now think that the 7b Ford Anglia was originally planned to have been no. 30.

[radar]

Interesting that 75 and 76 would have been similar, if not near identical "yank tanks. "

[SMS88]

Interesting that 75 and 76 would have been similar, if not near identical "yank tanks. "

No, its logical - we had 2 luxury european cars 65a + 66a , 2 vans 69a + 70a and something for the yanks with hooks to tow diner 74a. If military vehicles were originally planned as #63-67 + #70-73 we can now see that models at new product meetings were agreed as 65a + 66a (originally to be 61 +62) and 2 vans #69 + 70 (originally 69 + 68 and perhaps previously provisonally 63 + 64) , next meeting was army stuff #63-67 then following meeting 5 more miltary models #12b + #70-73 (came out as 68,71,MP tank,73), subsequent meeting approved 23c,74a,75a,76a (came out as 27c) and then a meeting approved the very British 4c (later 72a ) Tractor ,77a taxi, the 78a Triumph.Next meeting approved the 79a sugar truck, the 17c Pickfords the 5c Routemaster and the 30b Magrius . Last meeting before the decision to limit the range to 1-75 proposed 3 small family cars - the 80 VW, the 30b Anglia and the 36b Austin A55 Cambridge

[Idris]

...5 more miltary models #12b...

I think 12b was militarised sometime after it was authorised. (I know it was only ever meant to be a toy, but it is so horrendously out of scale with the rest of the military vehicles, I just cannot beleive that it started life as one. I think it began life as a simple upograde of the 12a.)

[SMS88]

...5 more miltary models #12b...

I think 12b was militarised sometime after it was authorised. (I know it was only ever meant to be a toy, but it is so horrendously out of scale with the rest of the military vehicles, I just cannot beleive that it started life as one. I think it began life as a simple upograde of the 12a.)

Actually all that matters is that the 12b was released in army green at the same time as the other military models and that it complied with Jack Odell´s fundamental fill the box rationale for scaling. Use of the number 12 proves it was an upgrade and use of olive green only proves that it could be used as an army vehicle or a farm vehicle -many 1:1 Land Rovers were supplied to farmers and other non-army buyers in glossy olive green - this model actually has no military casting features,its the same as the civilian version

[nickjones]

Just out of interest, The 74a Canteen is British, There was one parked outside the Eton manor sports center which was less than a quarter mile from the Eastway factory, I'm sure many Lesney employees must have used it.

[SMS88]

Just out of interest, The 74a Canteen is British, There was one parked outside the Eton manor sports center which was less than a quarter mile from the Eastway factory, I'm sure many Lesney employees must have used it.

I bet American kids liked the canteen or diner as much as British kids and from a Lesney point of view their christmas 1960 - new year 1961 4 new models 74a + 75a and 27c + 23c looked great hooked up!