pre production mack dump

[Idris]

Looking at the fouth photograph under high magnification, i think I can discern a baseplate location boss on the left-hand side. If so, this means that this is a standard production baseplate (matching Nick's variation code 2).

[numi]

Hi Michael,we are all wary and have always expected and experienced something like this from a few new comers. This forum is here to guide collectors,buyers & sellers alike without bias. What we see here and tend to believe is clearly some trickster trying to amass wealth from the unwary and this is not tolerated or condoned on this forum. This is not a place for tricksters! Given your query and what u had read from our members concerning this repaint,i find is offensive & distasteful that u could go ahead and advertise this as a Pre-pro on Ebay and further confirm that u had researched it with such affirmation/confirmation(please tell us where u had this confirmed and by whom) viz 1968 MATCHBOX LESNEY EXTREMELY RARE "PRE-PRODUCTION" MODEL - MACK DUMP TRUCK NO. 28...........
DID SOME RESEARCH ON THIS MODEL: IT MAY BE ONE OF ONLY ABOUT 100 LEFT IN THE WORLD.........ONE SOLD FOR $1,578.99 IN MARCH, 2004 (VECTIS.CO.UK)........ANOTHER ONE SOLD FOR OVER $399.99 (WHICH WAS THE STARTING BID).....SO - I HAVE DECIDED TO AUCTION THIS OFF FOR SOMEONE WHO WOULD APPRECIATE HAVING THIS IN THEIR COLLECTION..... . Nobody on here had confirmed or affirmed that this Mack Dumper was a pre-pro.

This repaint is on a later casting and not an early one. There are signs of glue/epoxy under the base rivet. The tipper pin shows signs of it being pushed in and peened while the paint was wet. There are orange paint flakes visible on the base & body. The black tipper sleeve is old,cracked and shows sign of being pulled off and refitted. The tyres show wear and had been painted. The windows are mere flat pieces of perspex cut to fit and very unprofessionally put together in trying to recreate the clear glass or a make believe prototype. The color is much darker and modern too. Evidently this is a fake trying to be passed on as a rare pre-production model to unsuspecting collectors or buyers. Your ask-price is irrelevant right now.

It would be in your best interest to have this model removed from Ebay and destroyed or returned in order to protect your current & future business. I assure u that none of our forum members on here and those who visit this forum would ever buy any models from u after reading what your character is all about. Its also scary to know that u have other rare pre-pros coming up for sale. Please note that i do not mean to attack u but it is u who ultimately will decide your character & destiny.

On the other hand perhaps u were too excited when this "pre-pro" came into your hands and u are now blinded and in total denial of it being a repaint/fake/custom and whatever we say to u might be useless and undeserving.

The day belongs to u!!
Numi

[Dr Jazz]

I agree with Numi, this model is a repaint and should be sold as one. Michael take it of untill you are sure, if someone buys it the will sue you. You dont want that?

[Idris]

Since the fact that this model is now on Ebay has been mentioned, and since there seems to be significant doubt regarding its authenticity, I see no harm in posting a link to the listing.

[Ewan]

Serious question here - would a GENUINE pre pro or colour trial model have a paint run like the one coming from the dump body on this? (4th listing photo)

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Hello Michael, I have resized and slightly lightened your picture for clarity.

Posting original pictures onto the forum will always result in a very large file size and once it's on the forum's page it is too big to view comfortably. Can I suggest you make a copy of the picture, then open this copy in the paint programme and resize it down to something like 25 % of the original size, then save it and use that smaller version of your picture to post onto the forum, try it and give us a shout if you get it all wrong or can't work out what I was trying to explain above.

GHOSTHUNTER.

[Idris]

Can members please only post in this topic in order that we can have just a single conversation? (I've already had to merge two other minor topics with this one and lock a third!)

[motorman]

Michael I cant beleive you have the audacity to state in your listing

"FINALLY - TO SUMMARIZE: AFTER DISCUSSIONS ON THE "NICK JONES" VINTAGEBRITISHDIECAST FORUM, AND FROM THE NOTES ABOVE, IT APPEARS THAT THIS MODEL HAS SOME PREPRO FEATURES....IT APPEARS TO BE LEGITIMATE - DOESN'T APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN REPRODUCED - BECAUSE IT LOOKS GENUINE...."

This models legitimacy was still being discussed by members on this Forum when you decided to list it on Ebay and i do not recall any one stating that it appeared legitimate. What has become clear from our very very experienced experts is that your model has the tell tale signs of being a fake. So i can only concur with Numi on this one and urge you to do the right thing and remove the ebay listing immediately furthermore if you do eventually relist it as a repaint please remove all reference to this Forum from your ebay description.

[fixer]

the BAD face of collecting
used this forum to try to get some sort of legitimate comments about an at best dodgy looking model, if this sells as a prepro and is found by the unlucky buyer to be fake as suspected on here it would damage the credibility of this site and members
this is worse than touch up tim
GET IT OFF EBAY NOW

[numi]

Michael,im not saying that ure a THIEF & LIAR but just saying that ure DISHONEST & NOT WILLING TO BEAR THE TRUTH & DEVIOUS!!
Come on over to the forum and defend that.......
numi.

968 MATCHBOX LESNEY RARE "PRE-PRODUCTION" PRE-COLOUR TRIAL MODEL - MACK DUMP TRUCK NO. 28...........

RESEARCH ON THIS MODEL:

1. .........ONE SOLD FOR $1,578.99 IN MARCH, 2004 (VECTIS.CO.UK)........ANOTHER ONE SOLD FOR OVER $399.99 (WHICH WAS THE STARTING BID).....

2. ....this model has the "flat slab" clear windows, red hubs, of course, has the rear axle brace....in addition, this model also bears some resemblance to another blue prepro model which does NOT have the letter "A" on the baseplate, just behind the rear axle....


3. having said that, it appears that this was one type of prepro, colour trial model made by lesney for this particular model (mack dump truck No. 28)

4. also, from: matchbox variations.wikispaces:

28D MACK DUMP TRUCK, 2 5/8" (68mm) 1968 Box types E & F
Orange body, green windows, unpainted metal grille & baseplate,
3 open steps under doors, with & without base brace studs under
front mudguards, plastic wheels with black tyres

This confirms that this model was made with and without the brace studs....

FINALLY - TO SUMMARIZE: AFTER DISCUSSIONS ON THE "NICK JONES" VINTAGEBRITISHDIECAST FORUM, AND FROM THE NOTES ABOVE, IT APPEARS THAT THIS MODEL HAS SOME PREPRO FEATURES....IT APPEARS TO BE LEGITIMATE - DOESN'T APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN REPRODUCED - BECAUSE IT LOOKS GENUINE....

SO - TO BE FAIR AND HONEST, I WILL SET THIS AUCTION AT A MORE REASONABLE PRICE, AS THIS IS STILL A BEAUTIFUL MODEL - PERHAPS A "LATER" PRE-PRO/PRE COLOUR TRIAL MODEL, MADE JUST BEFORE PRODUCTION.......
SEE PICTURES FOR CONDITION.......