Kalamazoo Toy Show- 70A Thames Estate Car

[Idris]

It sounds like that version with roof rivets, windows, and with crimped axles might have been a trial model for testing the 'new window rivets' and the fitting of window inserts Nick. They would have hand assembled a few in the prototype shop to check their final fit, but used the axle crimper there to finish the axles rather than bother workers on the busy production line rivet machines.

Sounds plausible to me.

[kwakers]

The Thames was introduced in July of 1959, so the use of crimped axles would not be out of timeline if they are found to exist in small numbers without roof rivets and window glaze. Nick doesn't list one as a variation, but we can all look for an example now in ANY condition.
I didn't have to dig out my old pocket catalogs, Nick has my 'favorite' catalog Thames pictured in red and gray as a backdrop right at his variation site! Unfortunately, the domed end of the axles are shown, so there is no hint as to whether the other ends are domed or crimped unless someone has that pre-production color trial model to show us. (That Thames has been a dream piece of mine since acquiring that catalog in 1966, along with the 27 Cadillac and other odd colored Lesneys it contained pictures of.....)
Nick has shared pictures of several GENUINE 23C Caravans produced in 1960 with crimped axles that we can now relate to this Thames. They are now the only known factory glazed window trials complete with their various colors to see how they would accent those new window units. They have not been coded because we know of none that were released to the public. The crimped axle Thames that Nick lists as code 4 now would have been produced about the same time these 'experimental' glazed Caravans were, in my opinion (As a kwaker's theory??). If we can verify 2 of them in collections with 'Martin's Law', my theory will be invalid. Like a handful of Stannard's variations and just like those crimped axle 23Cs, Nick's code 4 may not have been released to the stores for us to enjoy........kwakers

[nickjones]

The crimped axle thames has been discussed before, probably on the old forum. As it was made with windows so a later casting we concluded that it could have been assembled during a power cut (outage), I seem to remember a crimped axle thames being sold on ebay some years ago.

[kwakers]

That power outage explanation could well be the case Nick, the Post on it is not in my 'memory bank'....LOL . I am very sure you or perhaps Christian have seen that one in person, or in a picture to have featured it in your excellent listings. There have been many Lesney oddities done through the years Nick, but why code 4 rather than code 3 that would have made it the first released Thames with a window unit fitted, having these odd early crimped axles rather than the riveted ones? That was my first question on your coding of it, not at all authenticity, and I feel a bit like a devil even asking you........
I was able to find my first ever Thames without roof rivets in December of 2012 Greg, so I know your excitement very well on your 'new find'. I had found my window-less version with roof rivets years ago in circulation, and neither Aim nor NAMC U.S. Guides had catalogued the roof without rivets. We Yanks never even knew they existed before Mike Stannard in 1985........kwakers

[kwakers]

I guess I answered my own question here Nick! If the crimped axle glazed Thames is not considered a trial fit model, it was done later during 'stock' production and would properly be the code 4 variation rather than 3. It took awhile, I get your reasoning now.....a Sloooow kwakers

[Diecast]

It sounds like that version with roof rivets, windows, and with crimped axles might have been a trial model for testing the 'new window rivets' and the fitting of window inserts Nick. They would have hand assembled a few in the prototype shop to check their final fit, but used the axle crimper there to finish the axles rather than bother workers on the busy production line rivet machines. This is the first I have heard of a Thames with crimped axles, and would have expected it to turn up only with the early smooth roof and with no window inserts in early 'component testing' pre-production models. I believe I still remember the 70A pictured in a pocket catalog with totally different colors on it, I may have to look at that 1959 (?) catalog now for signs of axle crimping on it......
I have been searching for years for a #68 Austin Radio Truck in any condition with crimped axles, but had picked up the #69 Nestle's Van with crimped axles out of a store years ago with no problem. These two Lesneys were the last to have been released with crimped axles that I knew of till today. Another #70 Thames with C/A to add to my 'wish and want' Lesney telephone book.
kwakers

Very interesting topic. I have one 70a with DC axles in my collection for a long time. I was not paying any special attention to it and I did not think it could be something rare. The post of Dick has impressed me again. I have checked the model closely and found out a very interesting detail. All my models have windows with "classic" rivets . But this model with DC axles has the windows with shorter chisel rivets (they are shorter as the window thickness). This would confirm a very brilliant Dick's explanation of the strange existence of 70a with DC axles. The model has GPW ø9x20 with DC axles, clear windows and rear silver trim.
Antonin

[Taniwha]

Thanks to Dick and Antonin our knowledge is enhanced once again. Antonin, that 70a with crimped axles is amazing - never seen one before, and very interesting.

Cheers,
Gavin

[Ewan]

I think you may just have made Mr Jones rather
Lovely model and in great shape too - thanks for showing

[Diecast]

I think you may just have made Mr Jones rather

You are right Ewan, I have to iron out with the boss now

Sorry Nick, you're the boss here (It does not preclude your theory that the model with DC axles was produced during outage)

I don´t understand why the rivets for the window were designed so short. That must have lead to the cracking of the windows during production.
Antonin

[matchbox_n_molars]

Thanks to Dick and Antonin our knowledge is enhanced once again.
Cheers,
Gavin

I couldn't agree more Gavin. I just love how these threads occasionally stumble onto discovery and illumination.