70b grit spreader, black base

[Idris]

Nick's catalogue page notes that black-painted baseplates are known on what are probably pre-production versions of the 7c Refuse Truck which was released in 1967. It is therefore possible that similar examples of the 70b Grit Spreader, released in 1966, exist. However, whether they really do exist and, if they do, whether they are pre-production or first production run models (or even, as we have seen so often before, late pre-productions which formed part of the first release) are questions which are open to discussion.

[SMS88]

It maybe black but it doesnt look like paint,it appears to be the usual plated chemical coating which has been discoloured by an additional chemical.I would need proof that there is black paint on that baseplate to regard it as black rather than merely discoloured.Perhaps we have a chemist member who can help with the agent that can turn plating blackish,rather like dodgy blackend silver electroplated tea sets that were about in the 1960s-70s at 2nd hand markets

[kwakers]

I am not a chemist, but in the antique car hobby there is a solution you can buy that will blacken a bare metal part like an unplated base, but not after it has been plated. Rather than painting bolts black and having the paint chip when they are tightened, this finish is almost considered a 'Poor Man's Plating' and imitates the OEM satin black finish used on small auto parts. The system is sold by The Eastwood Company of Malvern, Pa., and referred to as a Black Oxide system.
This plating system uses Selenious Acid 7783-00-8, Phosphoric Acid 7664-38-2, Copper 7440-50-8, and Nickel 7440-02-0. When a part is dipped in this solution, it comes out a gray-black color. It must then immediately be dipped in a sealer compound comprised of Stoddard Solvent 8052-41-3 and Barium Compound 7440-39-3. This adds the deep rich black finish that would be similar to the Grit Truck with satin black base you have pictured. This treatment would have had to be done at the Lesney factory rather than their standard zinc (?) plating process. If someone did this chemically after the fact on a Grit Truck, it would not work over Lesney's base plating, and also would turn the bare metal axles a telltale black.
If someone on the Forum has a black based 7 Refuse Truck or 70b Grit Spreader, they can determine if theirs is in fact the standard Lesney painted black finish, or perhaps an alternate cheaper in-house plating method the factory may have been experimenting with on one or both of these two commercials.
We also must keep in mind when viewing this Grit Truck's base that the Lesney pre-pro paint jobs were pretty bad on a lot of models that have survived from the 60s, so even their 'Factory Finish' may even look too crude on these hand built Specials. (Especially after these early castings were stress tested after their paint schemes or colors were rejected upstairs). I personally passed on two very uniquely painted, but abused 'Pre-pros' because I was unaware of the fact that they were from Joe Stone's personal collection out of N.Y.C. I thought they were a bit 'funny in their paint', but I now realize too late that they were Lesney Historical Artifacts that I had even held in my hands for a bit........kwakers

[sammynose]

ok i can understand people having doubts about this being a varition ,but this is the 3rd one that has come to light so far .
i know how i feel about this model cause i have it here ,i dont believe it was painted outside of the lesney factory .
it is not a crude paint job its very thin and smooth , not something that was painted by hand . the base has not been taking apart either.
i myself believe that it is real,and i will always feel this way untill someone can prove diff .
dont really care how much its worth ,thats not inportant to me . just having a piece of lesney history is whats this hobby is all about right .
larry c. in ny any one that would like to see it in person i would be willing to ship it to them so they can see it for themself

[sammynose]

now that you talk about a chemist we have one in our train club here i will bring it to our show that we are having in 2 weeks and have him look at it.
i will also ask him about what you said about some kind of chemical that could turn it black like that .
i will let everyone know what he thinks after the show .
larry c. in ny

[sammynose]

i just sent an email to the chemist asking him about such a chemical , ill let you know what he says as soon as he answers me back
larry c. in ny

[ChFalkensteiner]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't the gloss black replace the flat black as used on the baseplates before this model was produced ?.

Just commenting on this particular aspect, I have to say that the original flat black was replaced by gloss black already in the late 1950s, and most black bases were gloss black throughout most of the 1960s, but during 1969 several models turned up with flat black bases once again. Examples are 6d, 8e, 24c, 34c, 36c, 41c, 50c, 54b, 66c and even the Superfast 69c (on very early examples).

[nickjones]

any one that would like to see it in person i would be willing to ship it to them so they can see it for themself

With some decent photographs it should be possible for us to decide if it is Lesney paint or not.
It's up to you Sammy.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

It maybe black but it doesnt look like paint,it appears to be the usual plated chemical coating which has been discoloured by an additional chemical.I would need proof that there is black paint on that baseplate to regard it as black rather than merely discoloured.Perhaps we have a chemist member who can help with the agent that can turn plating blackish,rather like dodgy blackend silver electroplated tea sets that were about in the 1960s-70s at 2nd hand markets

I am with sms88 on this.

I have seen this effect before on certain DINKY TOY baseplates where the mixture of metals used to create a bright finish without the cost of 'CHROME' effect plating, has become blackened, usually from the natural oxidisation, when left exsposed.

This particular example has really suffered to the extreme, if this is just a chemical reaction, triggered by moisture in the atmosphere, and as tempting as it is, it would probably clean off, but DON'T attempt to do this, leave well alone and display 'as is'.

Regards,
GHOSTHUNTER.

[sammynose]

tryig to upload picz

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